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Janey
New member
Username: Janey
Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 05:56 pm: | 
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I got into a bit of a discussion with someone about D/s and spanking. He said that D/s is abusive and that was the fun of it. I said that abuse is the opposite of consent - and D/s is consenting.
He of course, think goreans are the ideal. Perhaps this is why we couldn't find a medium ground. (Except that we're both glad not to be in a relationship with each other).
What do you think? Isn't D/s the opposite of abuse? Please make me right. ;) |
Headteddy
Junior Spanko
Username: Headteddy
Post Number: 56
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 07:03 pm: |
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Janey:
You are more than right-you are absolutely right. Consent is the very heart of D/s. Without consent d/s is simple assault.
Some people call what we do "power exchange". The key word is exchange. People who gravitate toward D/s do so for a lot of reasons-some erotic, some who feel they need more discipline in their lives and some for all three. They give up some control in one aspect of their lives for something else. It is an exchange. Abuse is about taking power not exchanging it.
My favorite author is a guy named Andy Vachss. He writes investigative fiction (stuff that is true but most people would not believe it so he calls it fiction). He is an attorney who only works for molested and abused kids and uses the profits from his books to support his law practice. You may have seen him on Oprah or on the cover of Parade.
He leads the international boycott of Thai products because they have sexual exploitation of children so deeply embedded in their socio-political structure.
His books are genuinely spanko friendly. In one of his books he wrote of a woman who said to the lead character "Just because I let him spank my a** doesn't mean he owns the rest of me".
His female characters often like to be spanked to show their devotion to their lover, as role play or as part of sex. They are most assuredly not weak submissives looking for an owner or master to run their lives.
Vachss is well worth reading-each and every book. I will be glad to start a new real life topic thread on him if there is any interest. He is genuinely important to read. And is also exciting, funny and erotic.
Anyone interested in finding out more about Vachss pm me.
Enjoy all
HT |
Beachley
New member
Username: Beachley
Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 07:53 pm: |
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I totally agree Janey - D/s must revolve around consent by both parties. Dom (Dominant) is the one in control but they have that control only in as much as it was given to them by their sub (submissive). Once the control is given though the sub acknowledges that she/he no longer as the power to affect the decisions made on her behalf by the Dom. That does not mean though that the Dom rides rough shod over her/him. He/She should and most times will appreciate the subs ideas, views, want to discuss whatever is happening, but the bottom line is it ends up being the Doms decisions that rule.
In a Dom/sub relationship spanking is just one small aspect of the whole relationship. The entire relationship is so much more than spanking.
At least that is my opinion and how it works in my household. Hope this helps.
The Spice of Life is having my OWN WAY!! A spanking would be nice.
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Plezurscry
New member
Username: Plezurscry
Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 09:56 pm: |
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I was involved with a Spanker for almost a year. Oddly enough he was a psychiatrist We saw each other maybe once a month as we had completely seperate lives and lived about 90 miles apart. When I decided to move to the Atlanta area the encounters had to end. At our last meeting just as he was leaving he said..."Thank you for letting me abuse you." I was astounded. I replied you have never abused me. He didn't agree. At that moment I felt more humiliation than from anything we had ever done together. CREEP! He turned his definition as a professional (???) of abuse. The only time its abuse is if its NOT agreed upon beforehand. Don't let anybody tell you different. |
Phantomlillith
New member
Username: Phantomlillith
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 01:08 am: |
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I think you should simply point out he's talking about slavery, whereas you're talking about submission. Kind of a major difference there.
And that the Gor series is the armpit of BDSM literature, but we all knew that... |
Bethie
Moderator/Spanking Aficionado
Username: Bethie
Post Number: 104
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 03:53 am: |
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I guess these guys in question missed out on the safe, sane, and consensual lecture then?
I really wonder about men who can throw words like abuse around so casually when discussing their own relationships. I've worked with abused women and in reality, it's ugly, dehumanizing, and has nothing to do with a d/s lifestyle.
And Phantomlillith, you're right about the Gor series. |
Beachley
New member
Username: Beachley
Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 06:11 am: |
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If a person who is into spanking and enjoys himself and likes a D/s relationship but still sees it as abusive, I'm sorry I would have to say that there is something totally off with this person as he pictures himself as the abuser. As in the case of the Psychiatrist - if he really felt this way, how could he continue to do what he did in the spanking relationship.
I guess I don't understand that at all. No one involved in spanking that I am aware of ever thought that a D/s relationship was abuse or that the he as the Dom was the abuser.
The Spice of Life is having my OWN WAY!! A spanking would be nice.
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Janey
New member
Username: Janey
Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 07:31 am: |
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Ya know- I'm thinking about this whole, "abuse" thing and I agree with Bethie and Beachley here... abusive relationships and the results are just NOT pretty.
I admit that sometimes people who I know are in D/s relationships sometimes worry that they've come close to crossing a line. When a spanking or punishment becomes UNFUN and they both leave with negative and unpleasant moods afterwards - they get concerned about it.
I mean, we're all human. Even if we do NOT intend to mistreat our loved ones, sometimes we snap and say unkind or mean things to them. This is the same in any relationship that involves spanking-- I think sometimes it can creep up to the line. But a healthy amount of talking and re-adjusting can fix that.
We cannot sugar-coat what we do and pretend that it never feels bad. But then, I would NEVER call it "abuse" either... most just communication issues.
I'm SO glad that you feel the same way I do about goreans. *shudder* Try as I might I just cannot accept those views they hold though I TRY to be accepting that we all have our own kinks and needs. |
Listener
New member
Username: Listener
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 01:26 pm: |
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I am quite into spanking and also into a lot of other aspects of BDSM but I would like to relate a somewhat-related story.
I was at a bondage convention a couple of years ago, and one of the women with whom I was working closely was part of a strict BDSM relationship that involved quite a lot of strong language. Not "fuck" and "shit" and stuff like that, but language that, given my upbringing, I felt was crossing some sort of line. I was assured by this woman that this was part of their relationship, but after our fourth day of working together, seeing and hearing them interact added together with a variety of other stresses (not the least of which was lack of sleep) led me to a small, short breakdown, after which I was all right again.
I thanked the woman for being there with me while it happened.
Nothing ever happened between us -- I am not the kind of person to break up a relationship -- but I still feel relationships like that cross a line for me, and I make an effort to avoid them when possible.
I find it kind of funny that even though I have no qualms about taking a paddle and turning a sub's bottom a bright shade of crimson, I get squicked (does anyone even use that word anymore?) by simply hearing a sub being "badmouthed", even if that is part of a previously-agreed-upon area of their relationship.
The difference between D/s and abuse is, as previously noted, consent. This woman and her master (for they had that kind of relationship) had previously consented to the above behavior on the part of the master. To an outsider, it might appear as abuse, but it really wasn't.
(I hope this was germane enough.)
Listener
"Why is it that no other species but man gets bored? Under the circumstances in which a man gets bored, a dog goes to sleep." -Walker Perry
Oh, and the avatar picture is my favorite paddle. It's wooden, fairly heavy, and about a foot across. Just so you know before you start sassing me. *grin*
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Wolfie
Moderator/Spanking Aficionado
Username: Wolfie
Post Number: 86
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 02:04 pm: |
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I've been in abusive relationships before (all vanilla) and the D/s one I have now is anything BUT!
Never has a man cared more about me...not me, the body I can screw, not me chief cook and bottle washer, but me the person. My self esteem, my health and well being, the little things that happen in my daily life, all these are important to him. Why? Because he wants me to be happy...because that is important to his happiness.
When I have a problem, I run to him. When I need a shoulder, its his I want. I depend on his quick wit, sense of humor and understanding to help me in times of trouble. Does this sound abusive to you?
A Dom/Master takes good care of his subs...they are a reflection on him and the kind of man he is. I dont know any one of them who would like to hear they abuse their subs...most would probably deck you for suggesting it. Ive been abused, mentally, physically and emotionally by men, there's nothing fun about it. I would trust my Dom with my life...I think that says it all. |
Darwins
New member
Username: Darwins
Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 02:13 pm: |
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There is a very fine line between Dominance submission and abuse – or at least how we perceive it.
For example, if, as in the example Listener gave, you had not been party to the quirks of the relationship you could have been forgiven for believing it to be an abusive one. One persons abusive could be another’s happy relationship. For me the use of language in any shape or form or indeed shouting would be abusive and I simply do not do it. Equally, I do not believe in slapping – even in scene play but many do and (strangely) seem to enjoy it.
However, that said, to consider D/s to be abusive in an all encompassing statement, is clearly a dangerous thing and this chap either lost the plot or never really “got it” in the first place.
I “Dominate” but the essence of that domination is to provide structure, nurture caring and love. To build up rather than to knock down, and to take pleasure from seeing a smile where there used to be a frown ……………..oh and of course to see a red bottom wriggling over my lap!
Wolfie is the Queen of everything
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Highwayman
New member
Username: Highwayman
Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 02:57 pm: |
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In a conversation with another dom over the weekend, he said very succinctly that in a healthy D/s relationship, the sub is the one really in control.
Alas, he was the Highwayman
The one who comes and goes
And only the Highway Woman
Keeps up with the likes of those...
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Darwins
New member
Username: Darwins
Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 06:18 pm: |
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Very True but the trick of the dance is not to let them realise that tooooo often 
Wolfie is the Queen of everything
Except
When I'm Around
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Beachley
New member
Username: Beachley
Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 07:42 pm: |
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But we do realize it and it is part of the intricate dance that the two parties engage in. That is what makes it work.
The Spice of Life is having my OWN WAY!! A spanking would be nice.
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Darwins
New member
Username: Darwins
Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 02:14 pm: |
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Ah..........but when they do.......spank 'em again
I'm a king bee baby Buzzing round your hive
we can make honey baby if you let me come inside
Come on babe lets buzzzzz a while.
(Rolling Stones)
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Beachley
New member
Username: Beachley
Post Number: 42
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 05:22 pm: |
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 Then everyone is happy. YES!!
The Spice of Life is having my OWN WAY!! A spanking would be nice.
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Wolfie
Moderator/Spanking Aficionado
Username: Wolfie
Post Number: 140
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 07:22 pm: |
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Oh, absolutely! 
wolfie doesn't want Steve to be Queen, she prefers him as a Dom.
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Darwins
New member
Username: Darwins
Post Number: 47
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 04:12 pm: |
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And shes going to get one.......or two .......or was it three???
I'm a king bee baby Buzzing round your hive
we can make honey baby if you let me come inside
Come on babe lets buzzzzz a while.
(Rolling Stones)
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Wolfie
Moderator/Spanking Aficionado
Username: Wolfie
Post Number: 154
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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Ummmm, how many may I have before I sound greedy? 
wolfie loves Steve more than anything else in the whole world...even more than chocolate and lobster!
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